About that political post

[jhetley]

Well, after a second cup of coffee, I've decided to post some of this anyway.  Making Light has a bit this morning about police departments preparing for Civil Unrest after the election, with a subtext that only massive fraud can prevent an Obama victory. 

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010706.html

Sorry, but I think that stinks.

See, if you question the integrity of the process, you cast doubt on an Obama victory as well as on a loss.  If the Republicans can rig an election, so can the Democrats.  I grew up in Cook County, Illinois, home of Mayor Daley (Elder or Younger).  Democratic Party fraud sort of defined the process, there.  Not sure whether it still does.  But the lesson lives on -- Democrats can be just as sleazy as Republicans.

Demonize thy enemy . . .

Comments

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Chicago politics — vote early and often!

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

And no discrimination on the basis of pulse, either. I recall getting mail from the Democratic Party addressed to my father. More than twenty years after he died . . .

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

The other thing that struck me about that is, this guy's premise is that an honest McCain victory is inconceivable ("That word ... you use it a lot.") because all the polls he likes show Obama 13-14 points ahead, and because one statistician/pundit says it's going to go down that way. (Though even he shows the popular vote very, very close. It's not just how many votes you've got, it's where they are.) But I've seen polls showing Obama and McCain still tied, and some showing McCain in the lead.

The truth is, a poll pretty much ends up saying what the poll-taker wanted it to say. We'll know the election results after the election, and until then, all the polls in the world are pretty much just empty rah-rah.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Fundamentally, you're right. Either side is fully capable of dirty tricks. No matter how the election turns out, there will be allegations of dirty trickery from supporters of the losing side.

From the position of the police departments, it's a very difficult situation. They have to prepare for any reasonable contingency, and it's not absurd to suggest that some kind of civil unrest might occur in the event of an Obama loss. But they also don't want to appear to be acting like the tools of any particular party. Even Baltimore, with a black woman as mayor and a solidly Democratic city council, is preparing for the contingency.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

My personal opinion -- an Obama loss would be more likely the result of racism and fear than fraud. Occam's Razor sort of thing. That was another part of the post I threw out this morning: probably somewhere in excess of 10% of the voters in this country simply will not vote for a black man. Most of them will not tell a poll-taker that . . .

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

It's really hard to say. Keep in mind, we're not talking about having to say that you won't vote for "a black man". It's just that you won't vote for one particular man (who happens to be black).

Fraud... fraud worries me because there are too many places where you don't have any paper trail if you engage in fraud. If it wasn't for that, I'd feel a lot more comfortable with the process.

Given the poll numbers, if the election was held tomorrow, and Obama lost solidly, I *would* suspect fraud of one sort or another. (Note that a suspicion does not mean I'd consider it proven. It just means I'd consider it a real possibility.)

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

Poll numbers are slippery. I've seen some recent ones with the gap closing. Maine numbers show Obama's lead widening -- maybe in response to those GOP robocalls . . .

[malkingrey.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've been following that ML thread with a sort of amazed bebogglement my own self.

It would be unkind and probably unfair to think that the arrival and departure of Election Day with nothing more than the usual celebration and kvetching would come as a disappointment to some people . . . but the temptation to unkindness is, on occasion, extreme.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed your comment about Satanic Hypercompetence.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Maybe so, but recent history suggests rather strongly that the balance has shifted.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

That's one of the problems with being old. I remember the Chicago convention. I remember Kent State. The Democrats can be just as ruthless, holding on to Power.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

Another problem with getting old, Kent State happened under Nixon. A lot of other stuff happened under Johnson, "shoot-ins" and such. It's the thought that counts . . .