Further on "democracy"

[jhetley]

Lots of discussion on what Ms. Bhutto's death means for "democracy" in Pakistan.  I doubt if the majority of people in Pakistan want democracy.  World-wide, most people want their side to run things, period, and democracy is at best a means to that end.  This is true even in the US -- we've seen too many leaders in both parties who want "my way or the highway." 

Love it or leave it.  50.0001% majority is a mandate from the people for my agenda.

The Nazis and the Bolshies were perfectly willing to use democracy to gain power.  Anyone who wanted democracy after that, got taken out and shot.

Comments

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Pakistan is an interesting study in politics right now (in the Chinese sense.) I think the middle-class people who live in and around the Indus valley, with the greatest concentration around Lahore, really *do* want some kind of democratic republic[1]. The tribes in the western mountains would be happier with a caliphate, provided they were in charge of it. The hordes of desperately poor urbanites aren't sure what they want, but they're convinced right now that their hopes died yesterday and they feel no reason to hold back from rioting.

[1] Of course they want the voting districts gerymandered to insure that they dominate in the vote because Insh'allah you don't want Those People running the country.

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

Nod. I figured a while back that you need two things for a good democracy.

First, you need people willing to take on some risk for democracy. If not, well, someone will *always* be willing to try *something* to strong arm people. If people won't stand up to at least some level of risk, there's no chance of a working democracy (but maybe a democracy in name only).

Second, you need people who love the good of the country enough to give up something. If they won't give up *anything*, they don't want democracy, they want oligarchy.

There's more, but those two seem most essential. If you're not sure both of those exist in sufficient quantities, I think democracy is doomed.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

And I wonder whether those two things exist in today's USA.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

On first reading of your last paragraph, I thought you were saying "the Nazis and the Bushies". And I don't think that's nearly as far-fetched as I used to; we just haven't seen Act III yet.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

Now why on _earth_ would you think I'd associate Bushies with Nazis?